Reimburse a Nouner
Disclaimer: Nobody asked me to put this prop up, it just makes sense to me.
Indexcard.eth loaned 7Ξ in order for Prop 173 to be successfully completed without any hiccups. This was certainly a loan, however, over a year has passed with 0 signs of any reimbursement.
Whilst this is not a loan to Nouns DAO directly, it was ultimately done in order to benefit the DAO. With no reimbursement in sight from the original proposer, the quickest (and potentially only) route to resolution is to pay back a valued DAO member and finally put this to bed.
You can read more context about what this loan paid for here.
Proposal votes
Activity
The right thing to do is to reimburse the Nouner, who was acting Nounish and for the good of the DAO and note who failed to pay their debts for disqualification of future initiatives on the social layer.
Very nice of you to do so! Also would be a little fun surprise to Indexcard.eth
- to Elad
While I wouldn’t have supported this spend in a budget, people need to make on the fly decisions while hosting events. We need to give them that leeway and have them know that the DAO will help them afterwards. Plans - particularly events - can’t always be encompassed in a budget. Things change, and when they do, the DAO should make people whole within reason.
(There is the obvious disclaimer that this works as a one off, but not as a norm. Since this hasn’t been a problem for the DAO, an exception here is more than warranted.)
I do this because I know index was acting in good faith for the DAO. But imo, he shouldn't have done that. Again, just doing because it's him and I know for sure he had his own reasons for doing it.
But this should NOT happen in the future.
Feeling sorry about this whole situation, for both parties, since I know they are super dedicated community members that extensively contributed to what nouns is today. Lets make this an exception. Index has done a lot for nouns since the first nouniversary and we can reframe this as retro funding that magically happens to cover the mentioned loan. Im sure 5 will find a way to fix this going forward, he is a wholesome guy.
The Nouncil has spoken.
We discuss all Nouns proposals every week in our Discord https://discord.gg/fdjJpMeV6K. The calls are public and all are welcome!
You can find previous call recordings here: https://nouncil.notion.site/30328df718424f17a623859018497fc2?v=806b5234a2a34b619c3d5028bcd879f0&pvs=4
Nouncil is overwhelmingly in support of reimbursing index for his bold and kind moves.
For - Wins
FOR - 34 VOTES
peterpandam | "YES, where is the helicopter footage?"
sqx.pcc | "Tutto il mondo è paese"
AGAINST - 0 VOTES
ABSTAINS - 2 VOTES
To be clear, it wasn't a loan to the DAO, but to hotfive.eth who mismanaged funds, overspent and ultimately chose to mislead & defraud indexcard.eth. He later on got funding for another proposal, still has a delegation and sticks around ignoring the elephant in the room...?
I admire the spirit of the proposal & the kindness to put this up for the sake of a fellow Nouner, but am not a huge fan of neither hotfive.eth, nor the issue of fraud between community members being explicitly mentioned.
This being brought up earlier, even if unpleasant, would've saved the DAO funds. Experimenting is good, but if it fails or trust is broken, that's a good thing to publicly document. The least we can do is clearly state what happened, now.
I do think co-signers need to be more wary of who they work with & there shouldn't be an expectation of the DAO to cover funds lost due to bad judgement/mismanagement.
But, as this is somewhat unprecedented within Nouns, I don't think there's a need to make an example out of index who acted only out of good intentions. I think what is a very painful lesson to one person could and should instead be a much less painful lesson to us all.
As such, I'm voting for - With two caveats:
-
I probably won’t be and don’t think we should be voting in favor of similar proposals in the future. The lesson is learned: Fraud can happen even within the most wholesome & great organizations, it’s upon us to be aware of that.
-
I view this as the DAO fronting the debt. Should this proposal pass, it’s my view that hotfive.eth then owes 7 ETH to Nouns DAO.
I think we can acknowledge the fraud committed without losing our optimism about Nouns in general, but I also think it’s important to acknowledge it, so we can learn & avoid situations like this in future.
This was a hard decision to make, because of the precedent it may set. But I think there's a wide understanding here that index should not wear the burden of his generosity and passion for making nouns what it is.
I would just urge any proposers with financial issues to be transparent with the DAO as early as possible.
Huge respect for index and anyone else who has been known to put their own money on the table in the name of nouns.
"A community is a stronger community when people have each other's back. It is a more beautiful world to live in when we get this feeling of support, that we are less alone in the world." - Elad
⌐◨-◨
https://www.lilnouns.wtf/vote/nounsdao/504/votes
FOR 109 VOTES
0xADa31Add8450CA0422983B9a3103633b78938617 | *"LIL NOUNCIL HAS SPOKEN
Delegate to Lil Nouncil here -> https://lilnouns.wtf/delegate?to=lilnouncil.eth"*
0xFC538FFD2923ddDaED09c8aD1a51686275C56183 | "easy yes"
0xae4705dC0816ee6d8a13F1C72780Ec5021915Fed | "youtube.com/watch?v=5h9EQaEl55o"
0x2eE0485f71764bcD2062A84d9455688c581B90f8 | "It is reasonable to think that overage to be paid due to logistical failures shouldn’t have been bag held by a member."
AGAINST 0 VOTES
ABSTAINS 54 VOTES
0x9e0e9D25a5ED9bc773f91691f0b45599255257B1 | "I've been trying to understand it, but I'm having trouble finding the context among all these proposals and going back and forth."
I completely trust index's intentions in everything he has done and will do. Sad to see a friend taking this hit alone.
The main argument against helping index is that it was his mistake to make, the DAO did not ask him to lend those funds, and I think all that is right.
At the same time, a community is a stronger community when people have each other's back. It is a more beautiful world to live in when we get this feeling of support, that we are less alone in the world.
I hope the DAO decides to help index. It'll be great for index and great for the Nouns community.
Hey, Pipe! Thanks for setting this prop up. Clearly, a 7 ETH loss hits Index way harder than it does the DAO, so there's no reason we shouldn't go for it. Index is a key member of our community, and we should definitely have his back.
thanks index
Wins matter because of the contrary exists.
I’m voting…
FOR covering the overage of Prop 173, and therefor covering index’s loan
FOR moving on with cynic free yet realistic trust in collaboration and creation
FOR always ripping off bandaids when wounded to accelerate healing. After healing, scar tissue is a lot stronger.
FOR 5Oc to actively recover
AGAINST this being the final step in resolving the situation.
This specific activation is special to me:
I couldn’t make it to NFT NYC, but a friend went there and attended all the Nouns activations. He isn’t into Nouns that much but wanted to experience Nouns’ magic and so he got onto the sailboat and it was all smiles. A couple days after the event, when he was back in Germany, he surprised me with a box in the mail - he gifted me all the merch he was gifted, because he knew how passionate I was about Nouns - he even included the napkin! That moment of opening the box and the joy of going through all the merch that I’ve seen on twitter, that was the moment I realized how proud I am about all the magic that’s being created in and with Nouns - and how big of a fan I am.
All to say that 5Oc and Index created magic in NYC and it meant a lot to many people, but there were losses along the way.
In the manner of Howard Schultz:
Onward!
I'm sorry to see that this occurred but I do think we need to reimburse Index for this. Clearly he assumed that this would be immediately reimbursed by five and helped to make sure that the event was successful.
My hope is that somewhere down the road five will reimburse the DAO for this 7eth when he is able and that he will make sure that the other prop he is involved with will be followed through.
💛 As seen through the lens of the Proposal at the time AND that at that time in Nouns: "spared no expense" was well and alive; I see little reason to not see the OG loan as transactional in nature to a DAO handler requesting temporary funds for a DAO proposal to be executed. Therefore, individual members should not bear financial losses.
😲 The duration of the time that has passed. This should have been rectified promptly.
🍕 Conclusion: Nounish members should not be penalized for being Nounish. Repayment should be made in full.
🧾 Lessons should be learned and should this arise again. PROMPT resolution BY THE OG Proposers who went over, IMO, should be rectified by the DAO. (in reasonable terms... overages happen). Timelines and Budgets matter. So does TRUST.
Easy yes. Index was sadly duped thinking he would be returned the eth. Who are we if we don't help out our most dedicated dao/community member? Index is a gem and I think it's a minimal ask to help make him whole.. I wouldn't support this for just anyone or any prop. But this feels like a special case. I do think 5oc should pay the dao back over time for this and this shouldn't let him feel like he's off the hook here.
sorry this happened index, but i don't think socializing the loss is the right path forward
Hello. I’ve been asked by some voters to comment. Aside from a few DMs and sharing a bit of my story in Nouncil (where this prop was sponsored ~a month ago via vote), I have been shying away from commenting as I’m naturally conflict-averse.
I will say that I never expected the DAO to pay me back for this. I do appreciate Pipe for feeling so strongly about me and my situation that he has pursued it on his own for the last few months when he knew I struggled with how to approach it myself.
Around the time of Prop 173, as an attending DAO member and local, I was communicating often with the proposer and providing occasional input. The proposer asked if I could assist with some logistical stuff here in the NYC area, and so I spent the entire day before the event coordinating, driving, and retrieving sailing equipment with him.
It was around this time that I was asked if I could assist the proposer financially with some day of the event expenses (media team payments, media which we never saw any of). It was framed that the proposer was having difficulty coordinating financially due to travels and timelines (international/banks/idk). Unfortunately, I didn’t think much of it under the context of a 154 ETH proposal, and so I provided some money under the guise of helping the event go smoothly.
The event happened, and the proposer returned home and insisted that I would get my money back ASAP. It’s now ~10 months since the time of the proposal, and I never received anything back. To be truthful, I did lend some money beyond this initial loan, and that feels even more embarrassing to be discussing/having the DAO vote on. I had some ETH in my wallet and had difficulty saying no. For whatever reason, I still had some trust left at this point.
I continued to remain optimistic and somewhat hopeful throughout last year until the Nounify Korea proposal passed. I began to feel disheartened, as the proposer received 52k USDC, and did not reach out to me regarding our situation. There was some communication on and off before that, but I wrongfully assumed some progress would be made here.
It was at this point that I began to accept a total and ever-growing loss (ETH appreciation), and reduced communication/trust in the proposer. Proposal 406 came around, and I chose to speak out to some DAO members, as I did not feel it was best for nouns to continue funding this proposer/similar events. Even if this meant I would never see a dime back.
That’s mostly the gist, but at least I learned how to sail.
Reimburse a Nouner
Disclaimer: Nobody asked me to put this prop up, it just makes sense to me.
Indexcard.eth loaned 7Ξ in order for Prop 173 to be successfully completed without any hiccups. This was certainly a loan, however, over a year has passed with 0 signs of any reimbursement.
Whilst this is not a loan to Nouns DAO directly, it was ultimately done in order to benefit the DAO. With no reimbursement in sight from the original proposer, the quickest (and potentially only) route to resolution is to pay back a valued DAO member and finally put this to bed.
You can read more context about what this loan paid for here.